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Graduate Programmes
To MSc or not to MSc?
10 May 2007COMMENTS
I don't wanna attend an Italian MSc, since they really suck, but I also don't have enough money to join a UK or American university. That's why I have thought about RSM in Rotterdam, which both Financial Times and Newsweek rate as the 6th best business school in Europe and which only costs about 1500€ (1000£) a year. Read all comments »If you haven't got a graduate training place, but are desperate to work in banking, will an MSc help you get what you want?
YES, if…
You studied a non-finance degree. If you graduated (or will graduate) in English literature or geography, an MSc in a finance-related subject shows you're keen. "It shows your commitment to the industry," says Julia Barbour, a consultant at finance recruitment firm Cornell Partnership. "You'll be on more solid ground when it's finished."
You have no finance-related work experience. Most students from Continental Europe have both an MSc and financial services work experience. The MSc won't do anything about the work experience but it will make you their academic equal.
You apply to the right school. Plenty of universities offer financial services MScs, but banks only hire from a few of them, and then only from favoured courses. The best universities and courses for a finance-related MSc include:
• the MSc in Finance at Imperial College's Tanaka Business School or its more specialist MSc in Risk Management and Financial Engineering
• the MSc in Financial Mathematics at Warwick
• the Masters in Financial Economics at Oxford University's Said Business School
• the MPhil in Finance at Judge Business School in Cambridge
• the MSc in Finance at the London School of Economics
Cass Business School also offers a number of MSc courses, which are viewed quite favourably by banks. And Reading University's ICMA Centre offers a very wide range of specialist programmes, plus its more general flagship MSc in International Securities, Investment and Banking.
You want to go into financial markets (rather than corporate finance). "The increased complexity of financial products means there's likely to be on-going demand for candidates with qualifications like an MSc," says Malcolm Horton, head of European graduate recruitment and development for Lehman Brothers.
You want to work in a hedge fund. As small organisations, hedge funds don't have the training resources of larger banks and are therefore keen on MSc students. "They will only take people with an MSc because they've had the technical training," says Lindsay Bortoluzzi, head of postgraduate employment at Cass Business School in London.
NO, if…
You got a low 2.2 in your first degree. Most big American bulge-bracket banks will discount anyone without a 2.1 degree, even if they have an MSc. However, some European banks will entertain applications from students who have strong A levels and were predicted a 2.1 but didn't quite make it. Unfortunately, they won't go on the record saying who they are. However, a graduate recruiter at one large European bank says, "A 2.1 is not a make or break for us, so an MSc can help. But we are in the minority."
You're innumerate. It's no good doing an MSc if you have the mathematical aptitude of Paris Hilton (who may well be a whiz at stochastic analysis for all we know). But if your maths is that bad you may not get onto an MSc course in the first place.
You want to be a quant. If you fancy being a quant, you're better off going straight into a PhD. Several banks, including JPMorgan and Morgan Stanley, offer specific entry positions for candidates with PhDs in maths, physics or other quantitative disciplines.
You plan to skip the first few years of training and come in at a higher level. You may have forked out many thousands of pounds and studied finance for a whole year, but after doing an MSc most banks will treat you just the same as a graduate with a Bachelor's degree. It's a sad truth, but with banks getting 30 to 40 applications for each analyst they have no need to treat MSc applicants any differently.
You're doing it as a filler and are not sure what you really want to do. "An MSc is a good thing, but what really matters is your motivation and your communication skills," says Lucy Evans, a graduate recruiter at ABN AMRO. "You won't be better equipped if you don't know what you want at the end of the year."
COMMENTS
Anonymous, Student, Thu 10 May 07
This is a very good Article! Thanks!!
I was planning to do a MSc and I got an offer from LSE. But, I find the MSc expenses too high and I don't want to increase my student loan.
On the other hand, I got a summer internship in an investment bank. May I know what's the successful rate for someone going into a summer internship programme then work as a full time straight after the internship? Or do I have to wait till 08 to join?
Please give me some advices. Thanks so much!!
Add your comment »Henry W, Fri 11 May 07
This article is particularly relevant to me, may I post a question to readers. It would be good to hear back from any professionals, HR or recruitment people.
Since graduating with a degree in `BA Geography` from the University of Leeds in 2004 (I also did a brief Easter student placement with UBS in 2002), I have taken some time out to see the world.
I spent some time in the UK - getting basic office skills down. A year in Sri Lanka working as a Relief worker, and a year in Tokyo, working as a business English teacher to corporate clients. I will be 24 this summer and am keen to start a career in London.
If I arrive in London will I be able to get a good job (entry level, even un-paid, but with prospects) with the skills and experience I have?
-Or should I enroll in an Msc in `Economics and finance` (probably at Newcastle University, but I will look into the other courses mentioned). Will this help, or hinder me?
I would appreciate any feedback as I don’t want to make un-informed decisions and waste time. Thanks.
Add your comment »Anon, Student, Fri 11 May 07
How about if you didnt go to a top-tier univeristy for undergrad. Will the MSc from a good institution bridge that gap?
Because at the moment regardless of your grades / extra curricular activities if you are one of these undergrads the best banks in particular throw your application straight in the bin.
Also I heard banks actually look to headhunt from a couple of 'top' courses in the UK. Any truth in that? Add your comment »
Anonymous, Investment Banking / M & A, Fri 11 May 07
A very good article! My situation is quite complicated, your advice will be of great help. I am finalizing a Msc in Corporate Finance at a top Continential European School.I also spent my undergrad exchange semester at Leonard Stern School of Business at NYU.
During my master's I did an i-banking internship with a leading US bank in Europe. I have been exploring opportunities in M&A for two years now, however I would like to start in London instead of Continential Europe. The grad recruitment coincided with my internship and I could not take the best of the application process for 2007. I graduate in June. Is there a possibility to enter before January 2007? Thank you.
Add your comment »CS028, Investment Banking / M & A, Fri 11 May 07
Got a very similar situation to some people here. I am finishing my BA this year and have an offer from LSE for their Master's programme, I also have an internship at a Bulge Bracket US Investment Bank this summer. However I have also been offered a place with a major European bank in an area that is not exactly where I want to be.
So what would be the best option, do the MSc and apply for grad schemes or hope the bank gives me an offer or work at the European bank for a year and begin applying for other opportunities?
Add your comment »Anonymous, Fri 11 May 07
I have completed my analyst programme and am considering a MSc not an MBA will this be enough to get onto an associate programme?
Add your comment »Sarah, Editor, eFinancialCareers.com, Fri 11 May 07
Hi
Here (in no particular order, I'm afraid) are answers to a few of the questions above.
1. An MSc will not get you onto an associate programme – you'll need to study an MBA.
2. Around 50-60% of people who go through the summer internship at an investment bank will be offered a full time graduate job at the end.
3. If you plan to do an MSc after taking time out travelling I'd recommend you go for one of those listed in the article – these are the ones the banks rate.
4. If you didn't go to a top tier university, an MSc from one of the preferred universities (again – above) will improve your 'brand' in the eyes of screeners (or so we're told by the head of recruiting at one US bank).
4. You'll probably find it hard to enter a front office role in a bank before Jan 08. There may be back office roles still available though - check the banks' websites.
And...
5. Once you've entered a bank in a particular area (e.g. operations) you'll find it hard to move into another area (e.g. the front office). It might, therefore, be better to do an MSc and then reapply....
Hope this helps.
Add your comment »Anonymous, Information Technology, Fri 11 May 07
Most decent research oriented universities will only seriously consider candidates for their PhD programs who already posses MScs. There are occasional exceptions to this, but they are few and far between.
I believe that for UK students getting an MSc is essential these days, not only to distinctify oneself but to compete with the European students.
I did an internship with one bank during my undergraduate degree who tried to talk me out of doing my MSc. I flatly rejected their offer (it was a lowball anyway) did my MSc and now work for a bigger, better and more profitable bank. Doing an MSc was one of the best things that I have ever done.
Add your comment »Anonymous, Student, Fri 11 May 07
Thank you so much Sarah. You are very kind :)
Say if I get a 2008 full-time offer after my 2007 summer internship, do you think it is possible to ask the bank to switch the full-time offer to 2007? (because I've changed my mind on doing a MSc)
Has anyone been successful on working as a summer intern then work as a full time straight afterwards (without waiting for a year)? Cheers!
Add your comment »HT, Student, Fri 11 May 07
I did a summer internship last year and worked with many interns who were planning to do an MSc the following year. Out of them a couple managed to get an offer of doing a few short-term internships or a one-year internship for the following year with the bank.. rather than taking the year to do the MSc. Thats the positive.
None however were allowed to enter the grad scheme for that year (as you will find interns and grads tend to start at a very similar time in all banks). Another thing about this was that the opportunities were for desks/teams who desperately needed an analyst level employee - so there was not much of a choice.
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