Fancy yourself as a trading whiz? Proprietary trading houses offer an alternative entry point. It’s not for everybody though. You have to be extremely good, extremely motivated and extremely resilient. The working culture is also normally more ‘informal’ (be prepared for lots of blokes) and flexible than in a bank.
What is it?
In a nutshell, it is trading with the company’s own money, rather than with clients’ money. Prop trading houses don’t need FSA regulation because they are only risking their own cash.
The upside
Unlike investment banks, prop trading houses don’t do the ‘milk round’ so jobs are available all year round. They don’t always insist upon immaculate academic credentials, either – Essex-based Elocal Traders said it doesn’t look at academic achievement at all.
And long term, the financial rewards are potentially huge – top traders make hundreds of thousands a year.
The downside
Don’t expect a hefty starting salary. £1,000 a month was mentioned by both Met Traders and TCA Futures. Others offer no basic pay at all. Whatever the set-up, the bulk of pay comes from a share of the profits you make by trading. This could start at 50% and go up as you become more successful.
“We’d expect our traders to be making at least £10k a month,” says Steven Davies, director at TCA, “but not straight away. It takes time to get there.”
“Of our 42 traders, maybe 35% are elite traders, making six figures plus, 40% are the middle guys and 25% are in the nursery,” says Danny Kessler, MD of Met Traders.
The training
Training varies. There may be some classroom training, some time trading on simulators and some mentoring from an experienced trader. Mentoring is best. All the houses we spoke to said they start people trading for real very quickly – but in small lots. As trainees become more successful they are allowed to trade higher amounts.
The skills
There are two sides to being a successful prop trader – one is the mental and numerical agility to grasp trading, the other is the right kind of character and personality.
Met Traders and TCA both said they favour graduates, generally with a maths or science background and good A levels. In most places you can expect to have to take a numeracy test.
As for personality, “You’ve got to be able to deal with losses and wins without becoming fixated,” says Joseph King, head of operations at Elocal. “You’ve got to have self-belief and relish a genuine meritocracy,” says Kessler. “Someone who wants to work for a bank may think they want a meritocracy, but actually there’s a comfort factor in working at a bank and sharing the benefits of a desk.”
“We look for people who strive to do things, who’ve had a knock and bounced back,” says Davies.
All three added that successful sportspeople often make good traders – because of the competitiveness.
What about the girls?
There are very few women prop traders. Elocal and Met Traders said they have no(!) women at present on their trading floors.
“In 20 years in this business the number of women I’ve come across is few and far between,” says King. “It could be the environment which is quite aggressive and testosterone-fuelled.”
“We actively try to recruit women but with limited success to date. Walking into a very male-dominated environment is not very attractive for many women,” says Kessler.
TCA currently has “about five” women on its trading floor amid 30 men. “Women are either rubbish or brilliant at it,” says Davies. But, he adds, “The women who apply to us have often thought carefully about what is involved and what their strengths are, whereas every chap dreams of being a trader and sitting at his desk reading GQ.”
What will it lead to?
Very few stay on the trading floor beyond 40. The most successful prop traders end up setting up their own businesses.
Moving into the middle or back office of a bank is also not uncommon.
Reality check
Competition is tough – Met Traders said it gets about 1,000 CVs a month – and takes on a couple of people. TCA said it gets about 600 applicants in each recruiting round, and takes on batches of eight on a quarterly basis. Elocal recently hired 12 people from a batch of 50 applicants.
http://www.ghtradersllc.com/careersInTrading.aspx
http://www.schneidertrading.com
Hallo I am Barzini from Warwick (2:2). I am running out of choices because of my unprestigious university background and the poor grade I obtained. Right now I am trying very very desperately to get a job, even if it is clearing or whatever. All I want to ask is: Does these trading desks accept people with a 2:2 and from a pitiful university like Warwick?
Add your comment »Anyone who considers getting into a trading house must understand such a career decision at an early stage of a graduates career would be a CV "Buster". If one is considering going into an Investment Bank after starting his career at a prop trading house, well you must realise that banks will immediatley throw your application into the bin once they see prop trading work experience.
Add your comment »Can you explain why this is, surely a successful prop trader, could be a successful trader at an investment bank!?
Add your comment »Why will investment banks hate it that you've worked for a prop trading house, surely does that not mean they won't need to train you up. Most of Goldman's profits come from prop trading, and normally you do not start as a prop trader at an i-bank, they prefer you to start flow trading and moving into prop trading later on. So why are prop trading house looked down upon?
Add your comment »It's true. Clearly those who question as to why this is a 'CV buster' as so rightly defined by the initial poster shows that clearly you haven't done your research, nor do you know exactly what a trader does at an investment bank.
Firstly, if you go into a prop house you will be involved in propriety trading. This is completely different to market making which is what the majority of traders at an investment bank does. When you prop trade you aren't trading for clients, you're going on the basis of your own knowledge and judgement. When trading in an ibank, you will be working at a desk alongside sales people and research. Market making is where you need to make the trades based on the clients' needs, not your own. You are effectively buying and selling securities, commodities, etc for the client, no more no less.
Secondly, there is the stigma from ibanks that what you learn from a prop trading house is total crap. It would take too much effort on behalf of the ibank to retrain you and get rid of old habits.
The fact that you learnt from a prop house means you are a risk to the ibank as well.
The article states that you can move into the middle office or back office. That's it.
To the original poster and the poster above:
Both of your comments are way off base, and founded upon broad generalizations. Clearly you guys have a narrow-minded and perhaps erroneous view of what prop trading is.
The first problem is that the term "proprietary trading firm" is used to describe a broad range of types of firms and what they do. To the poster above, your impression is that "market making" is something that a buyside desk at an ibank does and is not done at prop trading firms. Your completely wrong. Let me give you an example:
Groups such as DRW, Group One, Susquehanna, Jane Street are "proprietary trading firms". A large part of what these groups do is market making. They are providing continous bids/offers to help an exchange-traded product like CME Eurodollar Options stay liquid. In many cases, the larger market makers are designated by the exchanges to be "lead market makers" for a specific product. Each futures market for example will only have a handful of firms doing this and as such these groups or sub groups of larger groups in turn become experts about the product(s) they trade.
As such, these groups are THE experts for the particular markets they make. Help me understand why a prop desk or even flow trader at a bank wouldnt want someone from such a firm to come work for them?
Add your comment »Thank you for that post John, you have illustrated that well. Graduates such as myself need useable insight as opposed to knee-jerk generalisations that some feel the need to post.
Add your comment »I worked at a prop trading house, it didnt work out. But I have got on a grad trading program at a bank now. They didnt frown upon it at all.
Add your comment »james really..... thats interesting. how long did you trade at tyhe prop house for
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