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Working for a prop trading house

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Anyone who considers getting into a trading house must understand such a career decision at an early stage of a graduates career would be a CV "Buster".  Read all comments »

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Fancy yourself as a trading whiz? Proprietary trading houses offer an alternative entry point. It’s not for everybody though. You have to be extremely good, extremely motivated and extremely resilient. The working culture is also normally more ‘informal’ (be prepared for lots of blokes) and flexible than in a bank.

What is it?

In a nutshell, it is trading with the company’s own money, rather than with clients’ money. Prop trading houses don’t need FSA regulation because they are only risking their own cash.

The upside

Unlike investment banks, prop trading houses don’t do the ‘milk round’ so jobs are available all year round. They don’t always insist upon immaculate academic credentials, either – Essex-based Elocal Traders said it doesn’t look at academic achievement at all.

And long term, the financial rewards are potentially huge – top traders make hundreds of thousands a year.

The downside

Don’t expect a hefty starting salary. £1,000 a month was mentioned by both Met Traders and TCA Futures. Others offer no basic pay at all. Whatever the set-up, the bulk of pay comes from a share of the profits you make by trading. This could start at 50% and go up as you become more successful.

“We’d expect our traders to be making at least £10k a month,” says Steven Davies, director at TCA, “but not straight away. It takes time to get there.”

“Of our 42 traders, maybe 35% are elite traders, making six figures plus, 40% are the middle guys and 25% are in the nursery,” says Danny Kessler, MD of Met Traders.

The training

Training varies. There may be some classroom training, some time trading on simulators and some mentoring from an experienced trader. Mentoring is best. All the houses we spoke to said they start people trading for real very quickly – but in small lots. As trainees become more successful they are allowed to trade higher amounts.

The skills

There are two sides to being a successful prop trader – one is the mental and numerical agility to grasp trading, the other is the right kind of character and personality.

Met Traders and TCA both said they favour graduates, generally with a maths or science background and good A levels. In most places you can expect to have to take a numeracy test.

As for personality, “You’ve got to be able to deal with losses and wins without becoming fixated,” says Joseph King, head of operations at Elocal. “You’ve got to have self-belief and relish a genuine meritocracy,” says Kessler. “Someone who wants to work for a bank may think they want a meritocracy, but actually there’s a comfort factor in working at a bank and sharing the benefits of a desk.”

“We look for people who strive to do things, who’ve had a knock and bounced back,” says Davies.

All three added that successful sportspeople often make good traders – because of the competitiveness.

What about the girls?

There are very few women prop traders. Elocal and Met Traders said they have no(!) women at present on their trading floors.

“In 20 years in this business the number of women I’ve come across is few and far between,” says King. “It could be the environment which is quite aggressive and testosterone-fuelled.”

“We actively try to recruit women but with limited success to date. Walking into a very male-dominated environment is not very attractive for many women,” says Kessler.

TCA currently has “about five” women on its trading floor amid 30 men. “Women are either rubbish or brilliant at it,” says Davies. But, he adds, “The women who apply to us have often thought carefully about what is involved and what their strengths are, whereas every chap dreams of being a trader and sitting at his desk reading GQ.”

What will it lead to?

Very few stay on the trading floor beyond 40. The most successful prop traders end up setting up their own businesses.

Moving into the middle or back office of a bank is also not uncommon.

Reality check

Competition is tough – Met Traders said it gets about 1,000 CVs a month – and takes on a couple of people. TCA said it gets about 600 applicants in each recruiting round, and takes on batches of eight on a quarterly basis. Elocal recently hired 12 people from a batch of 50 applicants.

http://www.ghtradersllc.com/careersInTrading.aspx

http://www.schneidertrading.com

http://www.kytegroup.com/

COMMENTS

Dave, FX & Money Markets,  Tue 29 Apr 08

I have worked for a couple of prop shops over the years. About 1 in every 5 new recruits lasts more than a year. Ironically, for firms that trade intraday, they're a rubbish long term bet. Having said that, most of the people whom I worked with went on to banks doing everything from M&A, trading, research, corporate banking, back office, even HR. I also know a number of bank traders who have left for prop firms. It's a grey area.

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Anon,  Thu 01 May 08

I have been to several interviews at Prop trading houses, and in every single one of them they advise you and tell you that a prop trading career at an early stage of ones career is not a good choice if you want to move into an Investment Bank, they tell you if you want to move into an Investment Bank afterwards do not mention the fact that you worked for them on your CV. It is not a Knee-Jerk generalisation it is a fact, I have many friends in Investment Banks and contacted many HR people at Investment Banks and they all seem to confirm this view.

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analyst, Capital Markets,  Fri 02 May 08

i agree that it is difficult to move into ib after doing prop trading straight after graduating. not sure why ibs dont like prop traders - maybe its the training there as its not exactly client focuses or institutionalised as banking would be. also, banks would think that if you were that good at trading in a less institutionalised environment then why would you want to move to an IB? i think market makers are very very good at what they do and could replicate their success at a bank but may find it mroe difficult than someone who is a blank slate as they would be used to a completely diff environment.

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james, Trading,  Sun 04 May 08

not long, about 6 months.

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Brian, Student,  Tue 06 May 08

What's wrong with Barzini from Warwick? Warwick is not a pitiful university but one of the best in the UK. Don't blame Warwick..... Also, you must learn to use English better! Think why you did not get at 2.1 and think about how to improve your skills and knowledge.

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MIke cha, Student,  Tue 06 May 08

thx everyone, i think i wont reply to the calls from the prop house that i applied earlier anymore.

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chris, hedge fund trader, Hedge Funds,  Tue 06 May 08

Warwick is probably the best in UK. I have been studying there for an exchange program and I got a first grade but I can assure you that it is not easy at all. Now I work for an hedge fund and if you want to get into IB , forget for this year (suprime...). For prop, i do not know.

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Benny, Student,  Tue 06 May 08

This is a really interesting article etc. I think if you want to apply for one of these prop. trading houses then try and do your research and find out exactly how they operate.

I know this is slightly off the point but I wondered if anyone had any ideas about moving into the global markets division of an IB after starting post-uni life in an IDB (ICAP, Tullett Prebon, GFI etc.), as this is what I may well be thinking of doing. I have a feeling it may be tricky to jump from an IDB into an IB.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

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clone, Trading,  Wed 07 May 08

i am workin for a prop trading house now and king of have enough; i ve started 3 months ago and feel like crap; it s a bloody stressful job, think twice before you move into trading; previously i worked for PwC in financial advisory (my first job) and tell you this: i really miss those fun days i had there!!!!!

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geeno,  Thu 08 May 08

barzini, you are pitiful, not warwick

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