Search Advanced Post your resume

Student Centre

Sign up

Graduate Programmes

Working for a prop trading house

COMMENTS

Anyone who considers getting into a trading house must understand such a career decision at an early stage of a graduates career would be a CV "Buster".  Read all comments »

RELATED ARTICLES

Fancy yourself as a trading whiz? Proprietary trading houses offer an alternative entry point. It’s not for everybody though. You have to be extremely good, extremely motivated and extremely resilient. The working culture is also normally more ‘informal’ (be prepared for lots of blokes) and flexible than in a bank.

What is it?

In a nutshell, it is trading with the company’s own money, rather than with clients’ money. Prop trading houses don’t need FSA regulation because they are only risking their own cash.

The upside

Unlike investment banks, prop trading houses don’t do the ‘milk round’ so jobs are available all year round. They don’t always insist upon immaculate academic credentials, either – Essex-based Elocal Traders said it doesn’t look at academic achievement at all.

And long term, the financial rewards are potentially huge – top traders make hundreds of thousands a year.

The downside

Don’t expect a hefty starting salary. £1,000 a month was mentioned by both Met Traders and TCA Futures. Others offer no basic pay at all. Whatever the set-up, the bulk of pay comes from a share of the profits you make by trading. This could start at 50% and go up as you become more successful.

“We’d expect our traders to be making at least £10k a month,” says Steven Davies, director at TCA, “but not straight away. It takes time to get there.”

“Of our 42 traders, maybe 35% are elite traders, making six figures plus, 40% are the middle guys and 25% are in the nursery,” says Danny Kessler, MD of Met Traders.

The training

Training varies. There may be some classroom training, some time trading on simulators and some mentoring from an experienced trader. Mentoring is best. All the houses we spoke to said they start people trading for real very quickly – but in small lots. As trainees become more successful they are allowed to trade higher amounts.

The skills

There are two sides to being a successful prop trader – one is the mental and numerical agility to grasp trading, the other is the right kind of character and personality.

Met Traders and TCA both said they favour graduates, generally with a maths or science background and good A levels. In most places you can expect to have to take a numeracy test.

As for personality, “You’ve got to be able to deal with losses and wins without becoming fixated,” says Joseph King, head of operations at Elocal. “You’ve got to have self-belief and relish a genuine meritocracy,” says Kessler. “Someone who wants to work for a bank may think they want a meritocracy, but actually there’s a comfort factor in working at a bank and sharing the benefits of a desk.”

“We look for people who strive to do things, who’ve had a knock and bounced back,” says Davies.

All three added that successful sportspeople often make good traders – because of the competitiveness.

What about the girls?

There are very few women prop traders. Elocal and Met Traders said they have no(!) women at present on their trading floors.

“In 20 years in this business the number of women I’ve come across is few and far between,” says King. “It could be the environment which is quite aggressive and testosterone-fuelled.”

“We actively try to recruit women but with limited success to date. Walking into a very male-dominated environment is not very attractive for many women,” says Kessler.

TCA currently has “about five” women on its trading floor amid 30 men. “Women are either rubbish or brilliant at it,” says Davies. But, he adds, “The women who apply to us have often thought carefully about what is involved and what their strengths are, whereas every chap dreams of being a trader and sitting at his desk reading GQ.”

What will it lead to?

Very few stay on the trading floor beyond 40. The most successful prop traders end up setting up their own businesses.

Moving into the middle or back office of a bank is also not uncommon.

Reality check

Competition is tough – Met Traders said it gets about 1,000 CVs a month – and takes on a couple of people. TCA said it gets about 600 applicants in each recruiting round, and takes on batches of eight on a quarterly basis. Elocal recently hired 12 people from a batch of 50 applicants.

http://www.ghtradersllc.com/careersInTrading.aspx

http://www.schneidertrading.com

http://www.kytegroup.com/

COMMENTS

Anonymous, Trading,  Fri 09 May 08

clone, i take it you eouldnt recommend a prop trading house then? just been offered a job at one on a grad programme. should i take it? 3 months in . . . how much are you earning?

Add your comment »

Anon, Student,  Fri 09 May 08

I have just been offered a place on an executive programme of a prop trading house in London. However i have to pay a fee for the initial training after which I will be backed by the firm to start trading. Should I accept the offer ?. Can anyone advice me?

Add your comment »

Anon2, Trading,  Fri 09 May 08

I have been trading for three years now at various prop houses in London and would advise any new grads to avoid it. It is very low paid and very risky for your career. When I graduated I got a trading job and all of my mates went into boring jobs like accounting, finance etc and I was the 'lucky one'. Now, three years later, they are all on about £50k a year and I don't know how much I am going to earn each month! Every day is exciting and fresh, but there is no stability and I would definately think carefully about things more carefully given the opportunity again.

P.S - never put up any of your own money! Even if it is for training

Add your comment »

E, Derivatives,  Sat 10 May 08

Anon, Student
Don't pay anyone for the training. The prop firm should train you for free or pay you a small salary whilst training you. Even if you pay them to train you, it doesn't mean they will back you later.
Below is a list of prop firms. Some of them will have grad programs.

Add your comment »

Anonymous, Derivatives,  Sat 10 May 08

If a prop shop have offered you a job it is they who should fund any training not you.

Add your comment »

Anon, Student,  Sun 11 May 08

Thanks everyone for your advice. I will consider the option very carefully. E, Derivatives could you please send the list of prop firms again as I did not get them.

Add your comment »

E, Derivatives,  Mon 12 May 08

Anon, Student,
Sorry, forgot to attach the link. Only some of the firms on the list are based in the UK. You should first check each of the prop firm’s website. If they are based in the UK (unless you don’t mind working in places like Chicago or New York), call them and ask if they are offering a grad program and only apply to the ones that pay you a salary (normally about £400 per month) unless you know a good prop firm that doesn't pay a salary during the training period. If you don't have much success with firms that pay a wage, then apply tot he ones that are free. Never ever pay anyone to train you.

http://www.tradersnarrative.com/list-of-proprietary-trading-firms-735.html

Add your comment »

Goodwin, Information Technology,  Mon 12 May 08

I am working at Reuters sales, that is I go out and train clients how to use the Reuters to get their data needs and to do technical and financial analysis. I have already worked here a year and am looking forward to do my MBA after 2 years. Now the question is I have this interview from Saxon Financial in Singapore and my line of thought is if I get 2 years of work ex as a trader and then do my MBA then I will have much better resume to get a job after my MBA in a buy-side firm. Is that line of thought is correct? The contradicting statement I have seen is that of Anon saying that IBank shun prop traders. Can you please give me your views. Thanks a lot.

Add your comment »

Anon, Student,  Mon 12 May 08

E, Derivatives,

Thanks for the link. I have them now.

Add your comment »

shakti, Student,  Mon 12 May 08

hi am a student currently undertaking securities n investment level 1 ....i have 2 years trading knowledge of trading in equties n derivaties in india as i used to work as a sub broker..but now m in london n wanted to work in eqities how do i go by ..can any one help me out

Add your comment »
< Prev   1, 2, 3, 4   Next >

ADD YOUR COMMENT

* Mandatory fields
Your name
Your field
Your Comment*
You have 1200 characters left
Image verification* ( What is this? )
Enter the code shown below or Sign in / Register to skip this step.
Disclaimer: All comments must adhere to eFinancialCareers Ltd’s Add your comment rules.
To complain about a comment, please email editor@efinancialcareers.com.
  • Digg.com
  • Del.icio.us
  • Stumbleupon.com
  • Reddit.com
  • Yahoo.com

Site Information

eFinancialCareers is a Dice Holdings, Inc. company. Dice Holdings, Inc. is a publicly traded company listed on the New York Stock Exchange (Ticker: DHX)