UK
Graduate Programmes
What’s wrong with IT graduates in the UK?
14 August 2008COMMENTS
Part of the problem is their teaching. Some courses are so weak that my firm not only does not regard it as a CompSci degree, but we reject it as a degree of any kind. Read all comments »RELATED ARTICLES
The UK’s IT graduates seem to be stuck in an odd situation – there’s not enough of them to meet demand, yet a large numbers of them are failing to find a job, particularly in the financial space.
According to figures from the Higher Education Statistics Agency, nearly 10% of computer science graduates fail to find work six months after graduating – the highest proportion of any industry.
And there’s a dearth of them knocking on the doors of investment banks. Rob Steck, who recruits for IT roles at Citi says graduates are increasingly studying engineering rather than computer science and that although Citi would be happy to hire engineers for tech roles, their first port of call often isn’t technology in an investment bank.
Part of the problem, according to a recent study by IBM, is that though the computer science degrees might equip graduates with technical skills, they fail to address business needs.
A survey by tech website Silicon.com suggested that the UK’s IT graduates just don’t make the grade, with only a quarter of respondents agreeing that computer science grads are ‘high calibre’.
George Richford, manager of the IT team at recruiters Jonathan Wren tells us: “Of the recent graduate IT roles within banking we had, the large majority of suitable candidates we put forward were from overseas. Very few UK graduates had the relevant skills.”
Steve Furber, chair of the UK Computing Research Committee, believes there is still an appetite for UK computer science graduates: “No competent computer science graduate struggles to find work.”
Computer maker HP has just launched a degree with Thames Valley University, which aims to teach “commercial awareness” as well as hard programming skills.
COMMENTS
CS, Quantitative Analytics, Thu 14 Aug 08
CS and IT are two completely different things, this is as if you were comparing accountants with mathematicians.
Add your comment »Dominic Connor, Headhunter, HR & Recruitment, Thu 14 Aug 08
Part of the problem is their teaching. Some courses, such as the one at Kings College London are so weak that my firm not only does not regard it as a CompSci degree, but we reject it as a degree of any kind.
Although Java has commercial value, it is chosen for CS degrees "because it is easy". Right,. So people studying French should translate pop songs because that's commercial and easy, right ?
Java is not a bad teaching language, but a "competent" CS grad should be comfortable in several languages of several flavours, ie some combination Lisp, Haskell, SQL, Prolog, Python, Perl or even REXX and Algol.
Of course if you know C++, please feel free to contact me :)
Furber is right that there is strong demand for "competent" CS grads, but they are the minority. Many are studying CS with lower A level grades than some of my household staff. To teach them "successfully", universities pad out courses with "Multimedia" and "Computers and Society". Hint: If you apply to P&D for a job in a bank, and you've done C&S, we will never forward you for a job ever.
Some CS students use Apples. Because they're "easy to use". So when you grow up, you will only use "easy" software.
Aj, Information Technology, Thu 14 Aug 08
Not that diff.The comp sci guys stud 35% of course in programming related or use programming as a tool where as IT spend the majority time in programming.However mathematicans don't spend 1% of time accounting.The level of maths in accounting is of std 6.
Add your comment »Tim, Fri 15 Aug 08
You learn how to program over time, at University you learn the tools and techniques, not a language inside out.
How on earth is a CS graduate supposed to be comfortable in six languages after a three year course? Sure, you could be competent in a few, but it unlikely any graduate will finish Uni being able to comfortably program in a number of languages, at least not to the standard required to walk straight into a developer role.
Laughably, some of bigger banks are supporting this UCL MSc in Financial Computing where they will be taught how to program over one year... Good luck.
Renaissance Technologies_Boy, Information Technology, Mon 18 Aug 08
i did my CS degree in the UK and now working at a BB IB..I had offers from GS, JP and Lehman.... let me try to explain what's "wrong" with UK CS(not IT) graduates:
1. No time to do job hunting! Programming is both time consuming and energy consuming. CS is the hardest degree subject.
2. Never bother to sell their skills. REAL intelligent human beings don't give a sh*t to banks&consultancy firms' non-sense competencies, which means most CS kids wouldn't even bother to fill in applications forms. (if recruiters know who are the right people to take, banks wouldn't have messed up things so badly at the moment)
In the US, CS graduates are highly regarded, places like Stanford, Berkley, CMU and MIT, Banks are competing so hard with Silicon Valley firms... the top performing hedge fund: Renaissance Technologies puts top preference on CS students, then math and physics..
Let me extend this topic a bit further, let's look at the whole picture in the UK... people who can do the "talk" is far more popular than those who can do the "work"! the oddest thing is those who CAN'T do the difficult bit often look down on those who CAN!!!! GB --The Sun NEVER rise!
Dominic Connor, Headhunter, HR & Recruitment, Mon 18 Aug 08
I reject the notion that CS grads do not "have time" to look for jobs, and yes I've written code, lots of it.
"competency" interviews are of course rubbish. My job as a headhunter is to make sure the CS grads treat it as dealing with broken s/w. I've had to input wrong values to make it do what I want.
We've all had to write stuff that follwed a protocol pretending to be something else. Same with "competency", you need to learn to deal with it.
There's HRs out there who know you're emulating, but they figure that if you can act sane for 40 mins you can keep it up most of the time.
The value put on the firms for "high level" skills is indeed part of the problem and is not confined to IT/CS.
Tim above is right. If you need a laugh look at the "Financial Technology for Lesbians" done at UCL. It is as he says utter rubbish.
Saf Usman, Information Technology, Tue 19 Aug 08
I come from an engineering degree and I could code in Java, C++, Perl, PHP, C# but unfortunately I was put for a desktop support role within the IB that I work because the HR made an almighty cock-up with my application details. I would like to speak to Dominic as he mentioned that if I know C++ we could contact him. I am on the grad programme that is going downhill.
After doing one of support (Reluctantly accepted it) I am unable to move to any development role as the firm I currently work has got a global hiring freeze for God know how long.
Chris, Student, Tue 19 Aug 08
Tim and Dom, If the UCL MSc in Financial Computing, sponsored by GS, ML, MS, CS and Reuters, is laughable, then why did all the graduates get the pick of all the tech jobs from the top tier IBs upon graduation?
Add your comment »Mike, Information Technology, Tue 19 Aug 08
I did a CS degree back in the 80s, and I've now been in the City for more than 10 years, but when I left University I could code, but I couldn't pass a bank's HR interview to save my life.
Literally, if I was interviewed by HR, I didn't get the job. If I wasn't interviewed by HR, and only interviewed by IT people, I got the offer...
Remember that good programmers are often the sort of people that will happily sit at a computer for hours on end... It's not the sort of thing that tends to lead to great interview skills.
Dominic Connor, Quantitative Analytics, Wed 20 Aug 08
I can't even guess what jobs Tim thinks they had the "pick of".
Last year was a great time to be going into financial markets, and I've no doubt that the "graduates" of this course squeezed into pleb level roles. I do however doubt not only that they will prosper, but that they will even survive in a more competitive market.
As for this year's cohort, I have a lot more sympathy for their plight, not that I will help them of course, since they've failed our most basic filter for intelligence.
|
Site Information
- Australia
- Belgium
- Canada
- Denmark
- Finland
- France
- Germany
- Hong Kong
- Ireland
- Italy
- Japan
- Luxembourg
- Middle East
- Netherlands
- Norway
- Scotland
- Singapore
- South Africa
- Sweden
- Switzerland
- United Kingdom
- USA
- Send us feedback
- Terms of use and Privacy policy
- © Copyright 2000-2008 eFinancialCareers Ltd.
eFinancialCareers is a Dice Holdings, Inc. company. Dice Holdings, Inc. is a publicly traded company listed on the New York Stock Exchange (Ticker: DHX)
